\tCourtesy<\/p>\n
\u201cIf you want it, you make it happen,\u201d says Jenny Mollen. \u201cYou fucking fight.\u201d True to her words, the writer and actress didn\u2019t take no for an answer when it came to releasing her first-ever novel, City of Likes. In fact, she spent the bulk of the past four years shopping out the social media-centric satire to publishing houses, disappointed yet undeterred by each and every rejection letter she received. Having released two personal essay collections prior, \u201cI don\u2019t think anybody wanted fiction from me,\u201d she says. \u201cPeople told me this book wasn\u2019t what I should be writing; they wanted another memoir, and for me to just stay light and funny.\u201d Instead, Mollen opted for dark and outrageous. City of Likes follows an out-of-work copywriter who suddenly finds herself hobnobbing with Manhattan\u2019s top mom influencers (aka \u201cmomfluencers\u201d). As her own follower count begins to climb, the smoke and mirrors of her elite new world begin to fade\u2014and third-act revelations offer a twisted take on the realities behind our feeds. \u201cThis book is a story that haunted me, because it\u2019s about all of my worst fears,\u201d says Mollen, who shares sons, Sid, 8, and Lazlo, 4, with husband Jason Biggs. \u201cIt\u2019s something I needed to write, almost as a reminder for myself. In many ways, it\u2019s a confession of guilt.\u201d With City of Likes officially published and a TV series adaptation in the works (to be executive produced by Oscar winner Diablo Cody), it seems that her penance has paid off. And while she faced her share of skeptics along the way, Mollen\u2019s biggest fan, Busy Philipps, always knew she\u2019d succeed. The Girls5eva star and Mollen first met as preteens in Arizona, and three decades later, they\u2019re still championing each other\u2019s big wins. Here, the two sit down for an unfiltered, perfectly on-brand chat.Busy Philipps: I\u2019m so proud of you. I fucking love this book. It\u2019s so good.Jenny Mollen: It\u2019s crazy that people are reading it now, because for so long it was just me and Jason, who had read it so many times. It\u2019s funny when people say, \u201cThis was such a fun beach read.\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cReally? Because it scares the shit out of me!\u201d [Laughs.] It\u2019s about something that was happening to me, and I have a tendency to write about things that are happening to me. Even with people that work for me, I\u2019m like, \u201cYou\u2019ll become a character in my stories. Can you sign this NDA that says you won\u2019t say anything about me, but I can say anything I want about you?\u201d<\/p>\n
\t\t\tCourtesy<\/p>\n
\t\t\t\t\t\tCity of Likes<\/p>\n
\t\t\t\t\tNacelle Books
\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\tamazon.com<\/p>\n
\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t$10.69<\/p>\n
BP: Wait, I feel like I\u2019ve said that it\u2019s a beach read\u2026 [laughs.]JM: I mean, I get it. I\u2019m flattered! But you see the depth to it, too. When it comes to social media, you know the beast and the machine of it all. BP: And how tempting it can be\u2014especially for all of us Gen X women. External validation is our lifeblood, you know? Or at least it has been, historically speaking. It takes more work, almost, for us to realize that these things aren\u2019t real.JM: Yes. Because we had Baby Boomer narcissist parents, and all we want is love and attention. So now we\u2019re really fucked. It\u2019s popping up on our screen and we\u2019re being fed all of this shit. We\u2019re all addicts. BP: I don\u2019t think we\u2019ve ever talked about this, but I\u2019m friends with the writer Ada Calhoun, who wrote Why We Can\u2019t Sleep. It\u2019s a non-fiction book about Gen X women and sort of our general dissatisfaction [laughs]. But one thing I read that\u2019s super interesting is that the largest, most frequent users of social media are Gen X women. Like, our generation is the most addicted.JM: We are. And I had to call it out, because if I didn\u2019t, I was gonna become it. I needed to point a finger and say, \u201cThis is not the path that I want.\u201d Not to spoil the ending, but it was really important for me to end on this note to my kids of, \u201cI choose you.\u201d Like, I\u2019m choosing you over that. It\u2019s something that I think about every day.<\/p>\n
\t\tBusy Philipps
\n\tAutumn de Wilde<\/p>\n
BP: To be fair though, even when I consciously put my phone down for three hours and I\u2019m with my kids, just undivided [attention], the minute I pick my phone up, they\u2019re like, \u201cUgh, you\u2019re always on your phone!\u201d [Ed note: Philipps shares Birdie, 14, who identifies as non-binary, and daughter Cricket, 8, with husband Marc Silverstein; the pair recently announced their separation.] JM: They know it\u2019s the guilt that we\u2019re carrying around, too. They can play us like little Stradivarius [violins].BP: It\u2019s true. Birdie\u2019s 14 and doesn\u2019t even want Instagram. At a certain point, I came up with rules for myself about social media, so when I do share stuff about my kids, they have approval. But it\u2019s different for everybody. I started sharing Birdie on Instagram before it was even really a thing. I know this sounds like we weren\u2019t being considerate or something, but it didn\u2019t seem like a big deal at first. What you choose to share publicly is so deeply personal. I think people get off track when they think there\u2019s some hard and fast rule, or that they\u2019re going to benefit from oversharing.JM: Yeah, I could never show the kids [on social media]. It\u2019s just scary to me\u2014I\u2019m a very paranoid person and I\u2019m afraid of a lot of things. I have friends that do post their kids, and sometimes I\u2019m like, \u201cOh, well, this person lives in L.A.\u201d Maybe I\u2019d feel differently if I wasn\u2019t in a city where you could walk into a park and be like, \u201cOh, that\u2019s Sid or Lazlo Biggs.\u201d You have so much access to people in New York City, so when it came to sharing the kids, it was a hard no from the get-go. In L.A., nobody knows where you live, you take them in your car to their school, back into your car, and then back into your safe home. It\u2019s a totally different lifestyle. They\u2019re not on the subway at two years old with a nanny and a billion people.<\/p>\n
\t\u201cWhat you choose to share publicly is so deeply personal. I think people get off track when they think there\u2019s some hard and fast rule, or that they\u2019re going to benefit from oversharing.\u201d\u2014Busy Philipps<\/p>\n
BP: It\u2019s interesting that you bring up the New York versus L.A. thing, because that never occurred to me. But you\u2019re right, I bet I would\u2019ve felt differently [if I had raised my kids in the city]. Oh, well. That ship\u2019s sailed. Now Birdie\u2019s got mace in their backpack.JM: You would\u2019ve been different here, I\u2019m telling you. Like, I\u2019m afraid of Uber drivers kidnapping me and killing me. I was always afraid of being molested. My mom would tell me, \u201cYou\u2019re gonna be kidnapped and taken across the border to Mexico and turned into a sex slave if you talk to strangers.\u201d So that\u2019s where I\u2019m coming from as an \u201980s kid with after-school specials and gnarly shit like that. I can\u2019t get that to turn off in my brain. People look at social media as like, \u201cI\u2019m just scrapbooking. I want these memories for myself.\u201d It\u2019s innocuous at first, and then all of the sudden you become a personality and you\u2019re like, \u201cWait, fuck. Now I\u2019m selling chips? What happened?\u201d That is a weird thing. BP: In the last few years, my own addiction to social media and the daily need to post has gone away. I don\u2019t feel like I need to put stuff out there if I don\u2019t want to. It\u2019s interesting because I don\u2019t have as hard of a time with the paid stuff. I think because so much of acting is just selling shit, you know? JM: Yeah. When I\u2019m being paid, I\u2019m like, \u201cOh God, I have to jump out of this box again?!\u201d I was an actress for years though, so I\u2019m used to that. But something shifted for me as well. I don\u2019t feel the same pressure to overshare that I did a few years ago. I just think we\u2019re all damned if we do and damn if we don\u2019t, to be perfectly honest. My kids will probably come to me one day and be like, \u201cWhy was there always a fucking flame over my head? What\u2019s wrong with me?\u201d I do share stuff with Jason because it\u2019s kind of our love language. I think it\u2019s fun to see him spiral out and binge on food. He\u2019s my muse. In the middle of the night, I love to watch him wear a beret and talk about Emily in Paris. So I do overshare other weird shit. You would think, if you\u2019re not showing your kids, why are you showing your husband\u2019s balls? But for me, they\u2019re different. [Laughs.]BP: They are totally different. I do have to say, I think social media allowed us to have agency and our own voices in a way that the entertainment industry wasn\u2019t really amenable to young women. We didn\u2019t have the ability to be more than just a two-dimensional thing, and I know I always felt very hemmed in by the parts that I was up for and how I was seen. I felt like I had so much more depth and shit to say. With the advent of Twitter and then Instagram, I felt like I was able to take such control of my career and the trajectory of my forward-facing life, and not be reliant on a 300-word article about me in a beauty magazine that made me sound like an idiot, you know? As an actor, it used to be that you were at the mercy of the person writing the article about you. I\u2019m a writer, you\u2019re a writer. People bring their own things into every single interview\u2014their own ideas of who they want you to be and what the angle is and what the story is. Social media allowed me to take back my own story and tell it myself. Things still get put into clickbait, which is so annoying. But we know this, and the people who are fans at this point, they will dig deeper [to find the truth]. And the people who don\u2019t give a shit are still just going to read the clickbait and comment \u201ceye-roll emoji, who is this?\u201d It\u2019s like, well, why\u2019d you read the article? Like, I don\u2019t know what to tell you!JM: Right. I also think that at this point in life\u2014and I don\u2019t know if it\u2019s just moving through the industry or a coefficient of age\u2014but comparing myself [to other women] has gotten me nowhere. I really just have to focus, and honestly, I don\u2019t have the time to compare myself to anyone because I\u2019m too busy trying to raise two human beings. So that\u2019s also a great remedy for getting you out of your own head.<\/p>\n
\t\tBusy Philipps and Jenny Mollen celebrating the launch of City of Likes.
\n\tBFA<\/p>\n
BP: It is really hard, though. Even with all of the therapy and the age and the wisdom, I do still find myself occasionally scrolling on Instagram and being like, \u201cWhy is she always on vacation? How can I always be on vacation? I wanna be on vacation more.\u201d And it\u2019s like, \u201cWell, she\u2019s choosing to show you that.\u201d Then I\u2019ll see that from someone I know and I\u2019m like, \u201cWait, she\u2019s not on vacation right now. What the fuck?\u201d Although in the past few years I\u2019ve actually started holding my vacation pictures, too. Do you do that? JM: Of course. I wait until I leave the place because I\u2019m afraid everyone\u2019s trying to kill me. BP: Yeah, it took me a while to realize the safety component of it all. Like, oh, maybe posting Instagram stories of where I am in that moment isn\u2019t the move. But I was always just like, \u201cWho would even want to kill me?\u201d [Laughs.] Then once I started talking about abortion stuff and my abortion [at 15], it turned out that a lot of people want to kill me. JM: I do think that we have an obligation to do that, though. I know people are buying sweaters that I\u2019m telling them to buy, so I better fucking tell them how to vote, whether it lands or not. Especially now with all of this gun safety stuff, as a mother, I feel a moral obligation to say something about what kind of fucking third world country we\u2019ve devolved into. If I didn\u2019t say it, I would be such an asshole fraud. How pathetic would it be if all I used this platform for was to further my own personal brand? I don\u2019t want to name names, but I\u2019ve seen a lot of people who don\u2019t say anything about what\u2019s going on in the news when they\u2019re in the middle of a campaign for something. They\u2019re like, \u201cI don\u2019t wanna lose followers.\u201d Meanwhile, I\u2019m like, \u201cBye!\u201d I\u2019m ready to lose followers. I don\u2019t give fuck. I\u2019m not gonna stop talking about the things I believe in just because I want you to buy my book. Like, don\u2019t buy the fucking book; just vote for gun safety. At the end of the day I\u2019m a human being who has kids in this world, and there are things that are more important than my fucking career. BP: I think it\u2019s really fucking weird when people do it only when they\u2019re not in the midst of like promoting something else. Influencers do wield a certain amount of power. You have people looking to you for all kinds of information\u2014what you\u2019re eating, what you\u2019re wearing, how you\u2019re working out, and the issues that maybe we should be paying attention to. Just like there\u2019s too much TV to keep track of all the good shows, there are so many pressing issues right now in this country and around the world. I think people occasionally get a little bit lost and don\u2019t know where they should focus or how to take action. Personally, I\u2019ve found it helpful to follow activists who talk about actions we should be taking today. And then if I can amplify that, obviously I want to. Why wouldn\u2019t I? It\u2019s strange to me that anyone wouldn\u2019t.JM: If you\u2019re quiet, you\u2019re complicit. End of story. Everything that you\u2019ve been doing with abortion rights is absolutely astounding. It\u2019s so necessary and incredible that you\u2019ve been willing to put yourself out there and go to Washington [and testify before Congress in 2019]. These are things that somebody in your position wouldn\u2019t always do. It\u2019s alarming and scary, but you\u2019re putting [the issue] before yourself and your career. I\u2019m sure it also impacts the branding deals you\u2019re getting and the kind of money coming in. But it\u2019s a fight worth having, and it\u2019s such a noble and selfless act. I think it\u2019s fucking incredible. <\/p>\n
\t\u201cAt the end of the day I\u2019m a human being who has kids in this world, and there are things that are more important than my fucking career.\u201d\u2014Jenny Mollen<\/p>\n
BP: That\u2019s really sweet. I have to say, one thing that surprised me was that I actually did not have a dip in brand interest or opportunities. I thought there might be, but there wasn\u2019t. In fact, I\u2019ve been involved in some of these behind-the-scenes conversations with brands and agencies\u2019 marketing directors who are asking about activism. Brands are becoming more aware that it\u2019s important to take stands on things like gun violence, responsible gun laws, voting rights, bodily autonomy, and making sure that equality is for everyone. They\u2019re like, \u201cHow do we get into that conversation without it seeming like lip service or just putting a flag up for the month?\u201dJM: Right, or putting a black square up on their Instagram and that was their contribution. How fucking amazing is it that Starbucks is like, \u201cIf you work for us, we\u2019ll fly you to another state if you need an abortion.\u201d That\u2019s so ballsy and amazing. I was like, \u201cI love you guys. I don\u2019t know why I ever worked at Coffee Bean. I should have always been a Starbucks girl.\u201d [Laughs.] BP: When did you work at Coffee Bean? We need to discuss that. If I wasn\u2019t me, I would roll my eyes right now [at what I\u2019m about to say], but I do think we are all storytellers at our core. Throwing a graphic up is wonderful, but if you can tell a story and connect with people on a personal level, that\u2019s how you really engage and change people\u2019s hearts and minds. There is so much divisiveness in the country, but one thing that was really successful\u2014if you can call it that\u2014when I talked about my abortion was how simple it was. I just wanted people to know that if you think you don\u2019t know a person who\u2019s had an abortion, you do. Because one in four women will have an abortion before the age of 40, and I\u2019m one of those people. It doesn\u2019t matter why; it doesn\u2019t matter when. I\u2019m just saying that this affects people that you know and love. So I do think there is value in going deeper than putting up a graphic. From my perspective\u2014being an actor and a writer and a podcaster and all of these things for so many years\u2014I\u2019m interested in the personal and the connection. It\u2019s about how I can connect with someone who really feels a different way and ask them to see the humanity in the things that I\u2019m talking about.JM: Exactly. And I also think it\u2019s so important for kids to see their parents fight for things. Growing up, I felt like my parents were superheroes. My dad is a larger-than-life personality, and I was oftentimes just like, \u201cHow will I ever be good enough?\u201d I think my kids suffer a similar thing, just by the nature of the fact that we walk down the street and somebody knows who their dad is. I remember what that felt like, and it doesn\u2019t feel fucking good. Not that I\u2019m\u2026well, I guess I am projecting onto them. But with this book, when I was first rejected by six big publishing houses that I had worked with in the past, my son Sid was four. He was like, \u201cI\u2019m sorry nobody liked your book. What are you going to do?\u201d I told him I was going to just rewrite it, and I did. I took it out again a year later, but then the Capitol was being stormed. It was a terrible time to try and sell a book about wealthy white women in lower Manhattan [laughs]. Sid asked, \u201cWhat now?\u201d And I told him, \u201cThere is no stopping. I\u2019m gonna stay on the horse, and you will too.\u201d He has that resolve and resilience to him, too. When he falls down, I\u2019m like, \u201cGet back up and do it again.\u201d He\u2019s seen me fight so hard for this book, and I really want to share in this moment with my kids. Although right now, I\u2019m ready to take a break and not give a fuck what comes next.BP: It is so important for kids to see that their parents aren\u2019t just magical unicorns who everything comes easily for\u2014especially in a creative industry. Okay, now we need to go talk offline about how we can help my kids not hate the fact that I\u2019m their mom. [Laughs.] This interview has been edited and condensed for clarity.<\/p>\n
\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tSamantha Simon
\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tSamantha Simon is a writer, editor, and pop culture enthusiast living in New York City.<\/p>\n