{"id":13126,"date":"2022-08-11T16:44:57","date_gmt":"2022-08-11T13:44:57","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/selectednews.info\/ru\/the-queen-of-true-crime\/"},"modified":"2022-08-11T16:45:00","modified_gmt":"2022-08-11T13:45:00","slug":"the-queen-of-true-crime","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/selectednews.info\/ru\/the-queen-of-true-crime\/","title":{"rendered":"The Queen of True Crime"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>When Ashley Flowers was a child, she wanted to be a defense attorney. Once she realized the job wasn\u2019t like it appeared on TV, she decided to be a cold case detective. \u201cThen I found out you had to be a cop, and I was like, hard pass,\u201d she said. As long as she could remember, she\u2019d had an insatiable appetite for true crime. \u201cBut until podcasting, I never found the thing I was good at.\u201d She released the first episode of the weekly podcast she cohosts, Crime Junkie, in December of 2017. The format involved Flowers recounting the details of a crime she\u2019d researched online to her best friend, Brit Prawat, who interjected questions, asides, or midwesternisms like \u201cOh my word!\u201d Flowers started out recording the show at home in an extra bedroom (with Prawat, who lives in South Bend, Indiana, on the telephone). Prawat\u2019s husband composed the theme song, doing his best to interpret what Flowers meant when she asked for it to be \u201cpingier\u201d; Flowers\u2019s younger brother, David, then a college student, took on the editing the following summer.Within a year, Rolling Stone had declared Crime Junkie one of the best true crime podcasts of 2018. By mid-2019, Flowers and Prawat were on a panel at CrimeCon, the conference that draws everyone from serial killer obsessives to victims\u2019 advocates to journalists trying to figure out what to make of the fact that so many attendees\u2014mostly white, largely women\u2014rank it, at least according to CrimeCon, as \u201cone of the best weekends of my life!\u201d In October 2021, the company signed a multiyear ad sales deal with SiriusXM, reportedly worth more than $100 million. As of this spring, Crime Junkie was the second-most-listened-to podcast in the country, topped only by Joe Rogan, according to Edison Research. Through part of June, shows put out by Flowers\u2019s company, Audiochuck (it\u2019s named after her dog, Chuck), held three of the top 10 spots on the Apple podcast charts. Audiochuck\u2019s website claims its podcasts get 52 million downloads a month.Since Flowers entered the true crime podcast industry, it has grown exponentially. There are now numerous highbrow shows investigating the shortcomings of the criminal justice system; a wide array of \u201ctrue crime comedies\u201d; and over 100 episodes (I stopped counting) dedicated to Gabby Petito, the woman killed by her fianc\u00e9 while they were traveling across the country last summer. That so many people, particularly women, are consuming true crime has prompted curiosity and consternation. It\u2019s not entirely clear whether this interest is new\u2014is it more than after the Manson murders? Or during the era of Jack the Ripper?\u2014but what is apparent is that Flowers has uncanny insight into the types of stories many Americans want right now. Along the way, she has amassed one of those complicated fandoms consisting of lots of people who like what she does and a fair number who don\u2019t, but who still tune in anyway. (On the Crime Junkie subreddit, posters alternately defend the show or their right to criticize, and continue listening to, a show they seem to genuinely dislike.) When Flowers announced earlier this year that she would be publishing her first crime novel in August\u2014All Good People Here\u2014it rose to the top 10 list on Amazon\u2019s charts. On Goodreads, reviewers began declaring their approval with the catchphrase Crime Junkie is known for: \u201cFULL. BODY. CHILLS.\u201d Flowers and her dog, Chuck, for whom her company, Audiochuck, is named. Dina LitovskyOver the last few years, she\u2019s also encountered the perils and opportunities of a space with few set rules, not to mention the pitfalls of engaging with a subject that, even if huge amounts of money weren\u2019t sloshing around, would be morally fraught. It turns horrific experiences into entertainment, but at the same time, some victims\u2019 families proactively seek out coverage. As the ethical complications have become more salient, they have prompted a reckoning. But how exactly they could ever be fully resolved remains an open question.Spotify\u2019s new complex in downtown L.A. is so large it\u2019s known as \u201cPod City.\u201d SiriusXM, which acquired Stitcher in 2020 through a deal worth close to $325 million, has its headquarters in New York\u2019s Rockefeller Center.  Audiochuck\u2019s office is in Broad Ripple,  a residential neighborhood in Indianapolis. One morning in May, I arrived at a coffee shop there to find Flowers standing outside in the kind of stretchy black dress that makes breastfeeding easier\u2014she gave birth to her daughter, Josie, in January. She held Chuck\u2019s leash in one hand and, in the other, an iced coffee she\u2019d likely leave somewhere around the office. \u201cThey call me the drink phantom,\u201d she said.People also call her \u201cdriven.\u201d She spent Audiochuck\u2019s early years working 80 hours a week, sometimes arriving at the office at 4:30 a.m. to start walking at a treadmill desk. After Josie\u2019s birth, Flowers took two weeks off, then returned part-time for a month; ever since, she\u2019s worked 50-hour weeks. This was as much about necessity as about the fact that Audiochuck, in those blurry days of new motherhood, was a lifeline. Early on, Flowers experienced postpartum depression and struggled to bond with Josie. \u201cNow I\u2019m obsessed with her, but it was hard at first,\u201d she said. \u201cWork made me feel I was at least good at something.\u201d Across from the coffee shop was a large, modern space with enormous windows that the company planned to move into soon. By comparison, the current office, a few blocks away, included a galley kitchen that opened to a larger room with a cluster of desks, boxes of merchandise, and a map of the world to keep track of places fans had reached out from (pins were stuck in almost every country). Most of the roughly 30 employees were women, but there was one windowless room housing two male audio engineers\u2014the \u201cbro cove,\u201d David called it.As it became clear they were outgrowing that office, Flowers considered, briefly, opening one in L.A. \u201cBut I hated feeling like if I wanted a job in the entertainment space, I had to go to New York or L.A.,\u201d Flowers said. (\u201cWe\u2019re Midwesterners,\u201d Prawat told the New York Times last February. \u201cWe put ranch on everything.\u201d) \u201cYou always assume nothing bad is going to happen to you or your family,\u201d the point being that, of course, it always could. \u201cIt\u2019s a weird way to look at the world,\u201d Flowers says.When Flowers began plotting her novel, which she collaborated on with another writer named Alex Kiester, she situated it in the Midwest, too. A taut mystery, it tells the story of a journalist, Margot, who returns home to Wakarusa, Indiana (Prawat\u2019s hometown), to care for her aging uncle and ends up investigating two murders. The plot twists, broadly, around the idea that danger could lurk anywhere\u2014a theme often referenced on Crime Junkie. \u201cThe second you leave your guard down, you can succumb to a predator,\u201d as Flowers said in one episode. \u201cYou always assume nothing bad is going to happen to you or your family,\u201d she said in another, the point being that, of course, it always could. \u201cIt\u2019s a weird way to look at the world,\u201d she told me as we sat in her office. \u201cEven with people I think I know, I don\u2019t know what happens behind closed doors.\u201d Flowers, who\u2019s never experienced crime herself, believes learning about it can help people avoid it, or at least know how to respond. The Crime Junkie episode she\u2019s most proud of featured a woman who, after her sister went missing, used skills she gleaned partly from Crime Junkie to investigate. What often came across when I listened to Crime Junkie, though, was how random crime could be, and how difficult to foresee. While Flowers encourages listeners to follow their instincts, the stories frequently reveal how our instincts can fail us.The night before, after listening to hours of true crime, I felt so nervous in my hotel room that I checked not only the locks but, inexplicably, all the drawers. Walking through Broad Ripple the next day\u2014the sky bright blue and everything blooming in that lush mid-spring way that makes it easy to imagine that nothing will ever die\u2014my fears seemed absurd. I was with two publicists who represent Audiochuck, and one suggested the neighborhood reminded her of Gilmore Girls. \u201cIt seems like the kind of place where nothing bad ever happens,\u201d said the other. Flowers and her best friend and cohost, Brit Prawat. Dina LitovskyA few weeks earlier, Flowers was at the office when Prawat\u2019s husband texted to say Prawat was in the hospital\u2014she\u2019d had a blood clot in her brain and was soon rushed into surgery. Flowers dropped everything and drove to South Bend. When she announced what happened on Crime Junkie, she sobbed, though she said the prognosis was positive. The two have known each other since they were babies. After Flowers\u2019s mom, Lisa, gave birth to her, Prawat\u2019s mother, a close friend, visited the hospital. Lisa, wanting to be encouraging\u2014Prawat\u2019s parents were trying to adopt\u2014said, \u201cFor all you know, your baby could be being born right now.\u201d Two months later, when Prawat\u2019s parents adopted her, they learned she had in fact been born that day. Both families were part of the same megachurch\u2014Flowers\u2019s dad was an associate pastor, so her family lived in a parsonage on church property. The community was patriarchal and regimented; anything occult was frowned upon, as was alcohol. Flowers said that cigarettes got you sent to hell. \u201cWe had to go to church three days a week,\u201d she said. \u201cIt was my whole world.\u201d (Flowers was homeschooled for part of elementary school and attended the church\u2019s school for junior high.) As children, Flowers and Prawat were both also drawn to mysteries. JonBen\u00e9t Ramsey was the first true crime they were aware of\u2014they were \u201ctabloid height\u201d at the time, Flowers said. When the girls were in their early teens, the church had a schism. \u201cI think that kind of opened everyone\u2019s eyes,\u201d Flowers said. She came to believe the church taught judgment, not love. \u201cPeople who buy into those [ideas] really believe what they\u2019re told, which is that they\u2019re trying to save people from eternal damnation,\u201d she said. \u201cBut it\u2019s so fear-based.\u201d Still, certain values she retained. \u201cThere were kooky things from the church, but some good, too,\u201d Lisa said (she and Flowers\u2019s dad divorced in 2019). \u201cWe were taught to always be looking for a need.\u201d Having such a disillusioning experience could make trusting others challenging. This was also useful in true crime, Flowers said.Flowers attended college in Arizona, living with her grandmother while going to night school and working as a hospital telephone operator \u201cwith six other women who were all in their sixties,\u201d she said. Once she transferred to another job, she made a friend around her age, Amber Wong, who shared her love of true crime. When work was slow, they\u2019d read from an online library of true crime cases. \u201cPeople thought we were pretty odd,\u201d Wong said. \u201cWe\u2019d read for hours.\u201d Flowers still had no idea how to turn this interest into a career, though. One of her first jobs out of college was in genetic research at the University of Notre Dame. After that, she worked in sales at a medical start-up. This involved a lot of driving, which led to her bingeing the audio series Serial, sparking her obsession with true crime podcasts. She found her next job, at a software development company, by Googling Indianapolis companies that let you bring dogs to work. She also began volunteering for a local Crime Stoppers chapter. \u201c[I started to have] this lingering question,\u201d she said. \u201cIf this was my sister, would I want people being like, \u2018Oh, this is so interesting,\u2019 then moving on? At least if I was volunteering, I was trying to give back.\u201d \u201cJournalists do a ton of work, and I want to make sure they get credit. So we had to have this pivoting moment.\u201dAt Crime Stoppers, Flowers was tasked with trying to spread brand awareness to more people her age. She ended up meeting a local radio host, who suggested they work together on a true crime segment. The result was \u201cMurder Monday.\u201d \u201cI would do the research, wake up at 5 a.m., come into the station, and tell a story,\u201d Flowers said. The segment did so well that she decided to create her own podcast. It never occurred to Flowers to do the show with anyone other than Prawat. \u201cThat\u2019s always been our dynamic,\u201d Flowers said. \u201cI\u2019m the big ideas, and she\u2019s like, \u2018I\u2019m here to support you, man.\u2019\u201d Flowers invested $13,000, the bulk of her savings, to launch Crime Junkie. She slapped magnets on her car, and taped cards to bathroom stalls at rest stops. Prawat, on air, was meant to represent the audience, basically playing the role of sidekick. Prawat quit her day job first (she was in the office of a logistics company); Flowers followed soon after. In August 2019, a journalist named Cathy Frye, upon hearing Crime Junkie\u2019s episode about a crime she\u2019d covered for the Arkansas Democrat-Gazette, left an incensed comment on Flowers\u2019s Facebook page: \u201cYou quoted a portion of MY copyrighted story almost verbatim,\u201d Frye wrote. \u201cI then started listening to your other podcasts and\u2014SURPRISE!\u2014discovered that you don\u2019t cite sources or credit news organizations.\u201d BuzzFeed News and Variety wrote stories about the plagiarism accusations, and other press followed. Flowers walking at a treadmill desk.Dina LitovskyAt the time, there were few established standards for true crime podcasts. Speaking about the industry in general, Variety wrote in 2019, \u201cIt\u2019s not unusual for some podcasters to, say, simply read whole passages from Wikipedia.\u201d (A few months earlier, when an interviewer asked Flowers, \u201cWhere do you find all of this\u2014Wikipedia?\u201d she responded, \u201cGod, no, that would make us like some of the podcasts I don\u2019t love.\u201d) Flowers called herself a storyteller, as opposed to a journalist, and acknowledged drawing from others\u2019 research. \u201cIn my mind, I was like, I\u2019m so clear on the show this is not my original [reporting],\u201d she said. \u201cI thought that was enough.\u201d She often didn\u2019t say whose it was, though. \u201cOnce it was brought to my attention, of course it\u2019s not enough,\u201d Flowers added. \u201cJournalists do a ton of work, and I want to make sure they get credit. So we had to have this pivoting moment.\u201d  Flowers pulled a number of episodes, including the one that drew on Frye\u2019s work, and later reuploaded them with notes listing her sources. What the coverage also brought to light, though, was other true crime podcast hosts who claimed Flowers paraphrased their work. (Flowers said she simply used the same primary sources: \u201cI didn\u2019t take anyone\u2019s work and make it my own.\u201d) More recently, at least one true crime podcast made Flowers the focus of an episode, with her suspected transgressions discussed in the same dramatic tones the hosts used to discuss murder. As this was unfolding, Flowers was preparing to release Red Ball, a podcast about a detective, Bill Dalton, newly in charge of a locally notorious 40-year-old unsolved case. This proved controversial, too, after it came out that Dalton had given Flowers information from case files, even as another true crime podcast host, per Indianapolis Monthly, had an open records request for case documents denied. (\u201cI was not allowed to sit in a room with the files by myself,\u201d Flowers said, though she acknowledged looking over certain things with Dalton.) Flowers also gave Dalton final approval over what would be included; the true crime podcast The Murder Sheet later described Red Ball as \u201cbadly written \u2018copoganda.\u2019\u201dPerhaps women like \u201ccreepy stories because something creepy [is] in us.\u201dIn some episodes of Crime Junkie, law enforcement comes off badly. \u201cThere are stories where the officers are pushing these cases forward,\u201d Flowers said. \u201cBut there are a boatload where they\u2019re actively getting in the way or treating people differently because of who they are.\u201d Nonetheless, the show has often been credulous regarding law enforcement claims. In its episode on the 2009 disappearance of a white teenage girl, Crime Junkie named the young Black man whom the FBI had declared a suspect; recently another man (white, older) reportedly confessed to the crime and was charged with her murder. When I asked Flowers if she thought Crime Junkie erred in its coverage, she said she still wasn\u2019t sure. \u201cObviously he was responsible for nothing,\u201d she said of the young man. \u201cBut if police are trying to elicit information about a person, the public needs to know their name. I wish I had a good answer. The answer is, we have to figure out how to do better.\u201d  Drill down into some of the statements about true crime, and they start to seem facile. \u201cTrue crime isn\u2019t having its moment; it\u2019s always been popular,\u201d said Kelli Boling, an assistant professor of advertising and public relations at the University of Nebraska\u2013Lincoln. \u201cThe difference now is you can say how many people are downloading it.\u201d In terms of demographics, a 2019 CivicScience study found that viewership of true crime TV and documentary series skewed only slightly female. When it comes to true crime podcasts, though (or even shows like CSI), they clearly draw more women\u2014one 2018 study coauthored by Boling found 73 percent of true crime podcast listeners were women. As to why, \u201cthe research isn\u2019t particularly strong,\u201d said Louise Wattis, a criminologist at Northumbria University; the reasons women consume true crime are not always clear even to those who themselves listen to it. Boling wrote her PhD dissertation on domestic violence survivors who love true crime podcasts; many subjects asked her to let them know if she figured out why. (It seemed, at least partly, to be therapeutic.) One 2010 study suggested women believe true crime helps them learn to avoid predators. Journalist Rachel Monroe wrote in her book Savage Appetites that perhaps women like \u201ccreepy stories because something creepy [is] in us.\u201d Maybe women are drawn to the possibility of becoming self-deputized internet detectives, or maybe it\u2019s because women fear crime more\u2014if you spend a lot of your life scared of something, you\u2019re likely, when given the opportunity, to want a closer look. (Despite this, women are far less likely to be murdered than men, and have about the same chance, per Statista, of being the victim of a violent crime.) Considered from a different angle, though, why would women consuming true crime content be perplexing? True crime tales are stories in the classic sense, with a mystery introduced in the beginning and, one hopes, a resolution at the end. They reveal the darker corners of the human psyche, and often the secrets of another person\u2019s life, hardly topics of niche interest.It seems plausible the response to the genre might be different if it weren\u2019t so associated with women. But at the same time, there are lots of reasonable criticisms\u2014true crime podcasts do inevitably prey on people\u2019s suffering, and the victims portrayed are disproportionately white middle-class women. \u201cI think a wave of accountability is brewing,\u201d said Sarah Turney, who hosts the podcast Voices for Justice. Turney got into the industry after doing dozens of podcast interviews trying to get attention for her sister\u2019s 2001 disappearance. Yet while Turney guessed that podcasts could have made in the six figures from her sister\u2019s story, she found herself struggling to raise $6,000 on a GoFundMe for billboards she hoped would prompt leads. Turney said hosts have even asked her to cry, as in, \u2018Can you work up a few tears? I think we\u2019ll get more downloads.\u2019\u201d (After Turney approached Flowers to see if she\u2019d cover her sister\u2019s case, Crime Junkie ran an episode about her. Turney and Flowers subsequently became so close that Flowers has hosted Turney for Christmas.)The women Boling interviewed for her dissertation were partial to Crime Junkie because they saw themselves reflected in it and felt it was respectful of the victims and stuck with the facts. But this isn\u2019t how it\u2019s universally perceived. In Frye\u2019s Facebook post, she described the show as taking a \u201ccoffee-chat, gossipy approach.\u201d While it doesn\u2019t feature much speculation, there is some, and though Flowers and Prawat don\u2019t joke about crimes, they do make what are meant to be funny asides. Then there are the stories involving \u201cpruppets,\u201d Flowers\u2019s term for dogs (she repurposed it from an Adult Swim sketch about puppets). In one episode, after Flowers mentioned a police dog who placed his paw on his former owner\u2019s casket, Prawat exclaimed, \u201cThis might be the first episode where I cry!\u201d (Despite seeming off-the-cuff, the show is mostly scripted.) In recent years, Flowers has focused heavily on advocacy, starting a nonprofit, Season of Justice, that funds advanced DNA testing (so far Audiochuck has donated $800,000). She tries not to cover a case, she said, unless she believes it can serve a positive purpose, whether by increasing awareness or prompting tips. In 2021, she also hired a reporter so that Crime Junkie could dig into cases that have received little attention. For 2022, she aims to have at least 30 percent of Crime Junkie victims be from marginalized communities. \u201cI\u2019m trying to figure out how to do this ethically,\u201d she said. But as she also acknowledged, \u201cIt\u2019s not black and white.\u201d Brittany Bigelow, Audiochuck\u2019s head of production, explained that they considered entertainment and advocacy as inextricably linked. Without advocacy, they were simply exploiting trauma for profit; without entertainment, listeners wouldn\u2019t be motivated to engage. Bantam All Good People Here: A NovelNow 14% OffThat May afternoon at the Audiochuck office, a small group convened for a meeting. \u201cWe have a thousand things to cover and five minutes to do it,\u201d Flowers said. \u201cWhich is our specialty,\u201d Bigelow said.  Over the next 40 minutes, they ran through upcoming episodes. For one, they planned to provide listeners with a template they could use to encourage a state attorney general to change a victim\u2019s cause of death from \u201cundetermined\u201d to \u201chomicide.\u201d For another, they discussed putting up a billboard. After I left the office, I listened to the episode about the woman, Emily Corbin, who\u2019d used her \u201cCrime Junkie skills\u201d to investigate her sister\u2019s disappearance. In many respects, it served as a justification for Audiochuck\u2019s approach; it suggested that, whatever the ethical complications, it was helping in tangible ways. Corbin wasn\u2019t able to stop her sister from being murdered, but she did help lead police to the killer. Flowers\u2019s novel ended in a less conclusive fashion, answering some questions and raising a lot of others. I assumed she\u2019d finished with a cliffhanger because she planned to write a sequel, but she said she didn\u2019t. \u201cI wanted readers to walk away feeling unease, because that represented the world that I live in,\u201d she said. \u201cSo many times, you don\u2019t figure out what happened. Or if you do, you still don\u2019t get why.\u201d That a lot of true crime stories told today reflect such uncertainties is relatively new\u2014it used to be most concluded the way Corbin\u2019s did, with the killer caught and justice, on some level, restored. At the same time, Corbin\u2019s case itself was an unsettling indictment: No one was coming to save her sister; she had to do it herself. As for Flowers, she has spent too much time learning about crime not to recognize that, in many situations, even getting an answer\u2014a grim best-case scenario\u2014was unlikely. \u201cYou want to bring order back to something that doesn\u2019t feel like it makes sense,\u201d she said. \u201cYou want to put all the pieces back together. But they don\u2019t always fit.\u201dThis article appears in the September 2022 issue of ELLE.GET THE LATEST ISSUE OF ELLEMolly Langmuir is a freelance writer and former staff writer for ELLE.\u00a0<br \/>\n<br \/>\n<!--noindex--><br \/>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/www.elle.com\/culture\/books\/a40803254\/ashley-flowers-crime-junkie-profile-september-2022\/\" rel=\"nofollow\">Source link <\/a><br \/>\n<!--\/noindex--><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>When Ashley Flowers was a child, she wanted to be a defense attorney. Once she realized the job wasn\u2019t like it appeared on TV, she decided to be a cold case detective. \u201cThen I found out you had to be a cop, and I was like, hard pass,\u201d she said. As long as she could [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":13127,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[36],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-13126","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-novosti-shou-biznesa"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v27.6 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/product\/yoast-seo-wordpress\/ -->\n<title>The Queen of True Crime - Selected News<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/selectednews.info\/ru\/the-queen-of-true-crime\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"ru_RU\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"The Queen of True Crime - Selected News\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"When Ashley Flowers was a child, she wanted to be a defense attorney. 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